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RedditHere's the statement that Barack Obama issued within hours of the Russian decision to recognize the independence of two separatist regions of Georgia:
I condemn Russia's decision to recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent states and call upon all countries of the world not to accord any legitimacy to this action. ... Senator Biden and I have called for $1 billion in reconstruction assistance to help the people of Georgia in this time of great trial. I also welcome NATO's decision to establish a NATO-Georgia Commission. ... If Russia's government continues to violate the norms and practices of the international community, the United States and our allies must review all aspects of relations with Russia. ... Russia's recent choices -- not American or European decisions -- are ... reminding us all that peace and security in Europe cannot be taken for granted.
Tough words--not quite a resounding call for a new cold war, but close to it. Obama suggested that he would review Russia's OSCE membership, its applications to the WTO and OECD, the US-Russian civil nuclear agreement, and the Russia-NATO Council. Not too different from McCain's proposal (made pre-Georgia war) to kick Russia out of the G-8.
Obama has also called for military aid to Georgia: "The United States and Europe should immediately commit the resources necessary to ... restore [Georgia's] ability to manage its security."
Georgia's Ambassador Vasil Sikharuldize has been everywhere at the Democratic National Convention, the Weekly Standard lets us know, meeting with Obama's advisers, including former Secretary of State Madeline Albright and adviser Susan Rice, opnely making the point that Georgia's security is about "protect[ing] Europe's energy security, which depends on the safe transfer of oil and gas from the Caspian Sea through Georgia."
Biden thumped the war drums, too, in his speech to the DNC, but as the Christian Science Monitor noted, his less-than-nuanced Georgia war-whoops weren't exactly well received:
Applause fell off considerably when Biden proposed anything like more US involvement overseas. The line "We will hold Russia accountable for its actions, and we'll help the people of Georgia rebuild" sent the decibel level in the Pepsi Center markedly south.
What we didn't hear: no warnings that sending Dick Cheney to Georgia might not be a good idea. No comment on McCain's grand-standing decision to send his wife, Cindy, and, earlier, Senator Joe Lieberman, to Georgia. Not a mention (after the initial comments, weeks ago) about McCain adviser Randy Scheunemann's business ties to Georgia as a lobbyist for including that rogue nation in NATO, with its breakaway regions included. Of course, just before Obama announced his selection for the No. 2 spot on the ticket, Biden himself made a high-profile visit to Georgia.
In fact, Biden's Georgia visit was probably pre-arranged with the Obama campaign:
According to Biden spokeswoman Elizabeth Alexander, Biden spoke to Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili on Monday [August 11], and on Wednesday, the Georgian embassy conveyed to the Foreign Relations chairman that Saakashvili wanted Biden to come as soon as possible, as the former Soviet republic sought a ceasefire with Russia.Biden and Obama staffers discussed the proposed trip and Obama officials said they were glad Biden was considering it. One source familiar with the discussions added that had the Obama team opposed the idea, the senator would likely not have gone.
Some of Obama's advisers -- notably Bill Perry and Richard Danzig -- were reportedly saying in Denver that it's important to talk to Russia and to avoid pushing Moscow into a corner, to treat Russia with respect, according to Bloomberg. That's hopeful, but there's no sign of that sort of realist-influenced rationality from Obama and Biden themselves.
RSS
I think Obama should look into Putey-Pute (Putin's) soul....
that worked so well the last time!
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/28/2008 @ 4:29pm
Both Biden and Obama seem to be using tough Georgia talk to beef up their "national security" credentials--though i wasn't aware we'd added a 2nd Georgia to the roster of states. Bad enough to hear this from the neocon nutters, disturbing to see how close Georgia's political elite are cozying up to the Democrats. The party doesn't need a Georgian version of Chalabi. Glad to see many of the delegates reacted appropriately to Biden's rhetoric.
Posted by sincere1906 at 08/28/2008 @ 4:53pm
I think eventually history will prove both McCain and Obama wrong on this Georgia conflict, as it is clear that Georgia invaded South Ossetia and THAT is what provoked the Russian response.
Not being able to get the facts straight on such an important issue says a lot about the capacity of Obama to confront those who influence the Georgian government and reign these forces in so that they don't start a new Cold War.
The one-sided and distorted coverage of the Georgia invasion hearkens back to the distorted coverage of 9/11 and the build up to invade Iraq.
Obama of all people should realize this, so the question is whether he has the power to stand up for what he knows in his heart is the right thing to do.
His statements and those of Biden suggests that he does NOT have that power, and that our foreign policy continues to be hijacked by right-wing nuts.
When will we learn?
Posted by Metteyya at 08/28/2008 @ 5:15pm
I believe it was suggested somewhere in this magazine that the U.S. should leave NATO. I think that would be a good idea. With the end of the Cold War, our reason for membership disappeared. Russia no longer has a missionary Communist foreign policy, and her concerns are more local. She has been and will be a major power in the world, but, will not be a threat to anyone, who does not threaten her. The ancient quarrels of Eastern Europe and the Middle East are none of our business. The addition to NATO of nations on her border are perceived as a threat. These nations will therefore be treated as a threat. Membership in NATO for them makes a war with Russia a constant concern. They would be more secure if Eastern Europe was regarded as neutral ground.
Posted by P. J. Casey at 08/28/2008 @ 5:21pm
>>>Sounds like he's not ready to be president. And you don't like Biden. Boy, is this the same Mett?
Posted by frankgrits at 08/28/2008 @ 5:28pm<<<
Yes, it is the same Mett.
Unfortunately, "Obama the pragmatist" has concluded that he can't say or do much to break the grip of right-wing corrupt forces over US foreign policy, so he plays along to advance politically... presumably leaving this battle for another day.
Smart politics? Perhaps...but it is very disconcerting to see just how much power these corrupt forces have amassed when a nominee of a major political party does not believe he has the power to stand up to them and still win.
With Lieberman orchestrating McCain's every move, and now Biden on the ticket, where is the voter who wants REAL change from corrupt Washington politics-as-usual to turn?
We certainly can't vote Green or for Nader, as this won't get us real change, and only divides our vote to get more of the McSame.
So what do we do?
Posted by Metteyya at 08/28/2008 @ 5:38pm
Sounds like he's not ready to be president. And you don't like Biden. Boy, is this the same Mett? Posted by frankgrits at 08/28/2008 @ 5:28pm
Uhh. It sounds like he was talking about McCain too. Jesus do I have to constantly point out your ignorance and partisanship?
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/28/2008 @ 7:31pm
The Obama/Biden response indicates ignorance fueled by cash.
Zero (above) makes an accurate analogy to Kosovo. The US position on these 2 states is in direct opposition to the US position on Kosovo.
The US is playing the imperial game and the American people will, yet again, pay an imperial price.
We will continue to be screwed by richly rewarded leaders in thrall to war profiteers.
Posted by sloper at 08/28/2008 @ 7:48pm
Now John McCain, there's one tough somnabitch.----Posted by frankgrits at 08/28/2008 @ 4:
I bet FRANK had to backspace when instead of "tough"...he ALMOST wrote "scary".
And then even HE realized how that would sound!
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/28/2008 @ 7:50pm
"as it is clear that Georgia invaded South Ossetia and THAT is what provoked the Russian response."
Of course, you are totally ignoring the many Russian provocations. The granting of Russian passports to both the South Ossetians and the Abkhazians constituted a creeping annexation. Further, after the Kosovar declaration of independence, Russia moved troops in under a spurious rationale of peacekeeping.
Sakashvili's invasion was stupid, but Russia's claim that large-scale massacres were going on is bogus.
The comparison to Kosovo won't hold up either. The Kosovar declaration took place after a long history of Serb ethnic cleansing against its neighbors and the threat of the same against the Kosovars.
Further, the US and its allies didn't have a history of creeping annexation of Kosovo. There was also a long attempt to kind a diplomatic solution to the Kosovo issue. The Russians were just interest in grabbing off the enclaves as soon as they could.
Posted by brunowe at 08/28/2008 @ 9:28pm
Good points as usual, Brunowe. However you neglect on important aspect of the conflict. The Ossetians and the Abkhazians want autonomy. They have made it clear that they do not want to be a part of Georgia.
Posted by blue photon at 08/28/2008 @ 10:05pm
i bet mccain can't even find georgia on a map.
i swear these guys need to take a test before than should be able to put their names on a ballot.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/28/2008 @ 10:57pm
"We have serious reasons to believe that American citizens were right at the heart of the military action. This would have implications for American domestic policy. If this is confirmed, we will have grounds to suspect that somebody in the U.S. has created this conflict to aggravate the situation and create a competitive advantage for one of the presidential candidates".
Vladimir Putin
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/28/2008 @ 11:37pm
and it just had to happen when obama was on vacation.......
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/28/2008 @ 11:38pm
I believe that the world is better off without Saddam Hussein. I believe it's clear that he had every intention to acquire and use weapons of mass destruction. I can only imagine what Saddam Hussein would be doing with the wealth he would acquire with oil at $110 and $120 a barrel.
john mccain.
<<<<>>>>
uh, john, stop and think.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 12:15am
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/28/2008 @ 11:37pm
While not one to hop on the Putin bandwagon, I would recommend researching the Americans who have visited Georgia, especially those who ventured there just prior to the Ossetia dust-up.
Posted by drhammer at 08/29/2008 @ 09:00am
"I am a war president."
Think about it.
The fuckers can't help themselves.
Posted by drhammer at 08/29/2008 @ 09:03am
There is absolutely no difference on foreign policy of any significance between Obama and McCain. They are both AIPAC owned, lock, stock and barrel. If you're looking for something other than the best President money can buy and find yourself unable to resist voting, vote Nader or Baldwin.
Posted by john lowell at 08/29/2008 @ 09:11am
While not one to hop on the Putin bandwagon, I would recommend researching the Americans who have visited Georgia, especially those who ventured there just prior to the Ossetia dust-up.
Posted by drhammer at 08/29/2008 @ 09:00am
oh so suspicious.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 4:06pm
The war party seems to have both of it's wings well represented this election.
Isn't Ossetia's "self determination" just like Kosovo's? We don't respect the territorial integrety of countries, why are we so concerned about Georgia's.
It's time to end this NATO nonsense once and for all, but we won't, because liberals are just as interventionist as everyone else.
Posted by elvisd at 08/29/2008 @ 5:14pm
I hope the Democrats will stop the wrong-headed policy of containing Russia, backing it into a corner by expanding NATO and supporting insatiable militarists such as Georgia's M. Saakashvili. The time for change is now.
Posted by bteresh at 08/29/2008 @ 5:19pm
The time for change is now.
Posted by bteresh at 08/29/2008 @ 5:19pm
actually,
it was a looooooooooong time ago.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 5:43pm
Sadly reminiscent of the old Cold War self serving ideology served up anew only with Russia as the Soviet Union and NATO expanding as the benevolent protector of the former Soviet dominated Eastern, Central European nations and now the Caucasus too, and suddenly Georgia is a "key" ally and central to US "strategic interests." Given what has been said on Israel, Palestine, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan hard to believe the US will really leave Iraq any time soon. Also there is little the social democratic movements in the rest of the Americas can look forward too if what Biden has said hold true for an Obama administration. Change doesn't go far beyond domestic policy.
All reminds me of JFK and his Cold War militancy with the disastrous results that followed. Only this time around the US is overextended and in debt and the Russians flush for the time being, with plenty of oil and with few economic productive ties to Europe or the US requiring foreign capital and hard too see what pressures will work. That leaves military tit for tat and increased spending. Very dangerous and no peace movement to pressure otherwise.
As with JFK increased military spending and interventions sank the domestic reforms attempted by LBJ, the same could happen again.
Charlie M.
Posted by cmsandia at 08/29/2008 @ 8:28pm
dear interventionist pro-saakhashvilian dudes, we are not holding our breath anymore for you to come to our rescue and free us from the Russian interventions. why dont you leave it for us to do it on our own. after all the fact is at the end of the day we can only count on ourselves and change can only come from within, enough of your supermanly talk and sabre-rattling, nothing good comes of it anyways.
Posted by buhara at 08/29/2008 @ 11:21pm
Isolating Russia will not make any good to the world and the US. Better deal with them than eventually fighting them. Georgian leaders would do a whole lot better first to seat in negotation tables with the Russians and the ethnias that seek independency. Because one can only think if they did it on purpose to play the victim and gain international support. The Russians should leave alone the former Soviet republics with the only condition the former don't exhibit anti-Russian politics that could eventually threaten Russia's security (like for example, NATO membership). And the US should set the example by ceasing to invade other countries.
And the United Nations is always dead on arrival because the big powers can veto anything, like in this last incident by Russia, and supra national armed forces are non existent.
Posted by Frank42 at 08/30/2008 @ 02:38am
I have no idea what the Bush Administration promised the Eastern European countries to get them into Iraq, but any country that thinks the Administration has a clue about anything is not in the real world. These people are screw ups from the word go! I also have no idea, what kind of trainers they sent to Georgia, but, if it was one of those private security companies, God help them! I understand Georgia also had some trainers from Israel, and the assault on South Ossetia did remind me of their most recent war with Hizbullah, without the air cover. They are still conducting investigations into that mess in Israel. At least, I didn't see any armored bulldosers among among the shattered Georgian tanks. Israel was dealing with a well-trained militia. Georgia was dealing with a militia, backed by the Russian Army. Georgia would have had a better chance of retaining those provinces through negotiations, than the use of force. How much help any future administration gives to any country, will depend on the latest poll for the next election after 2008 . The U. S. doesn't govern, because making a decisions might offend someone in the next election. Georgia is on their own, but they will probably be safer without foreign adivce.
Posted by P. J. Casey at 08/30/2008 @ 2:09pm
This is ridiculous. Obama/Biden sound just like Republicans who constantly blame Russian for this mess without any mention that Georgia ignited the war to begin with by invading the breakaway territory. My fears are being realized. Obama will be so pressured to rebut this notion of weakness that he will adopt many of the policies of the last eight years. The only way a new Cold War will begin with Russia is if the U.S. provokes to conflict and right now I see nothing in this article that convinces me there is a bit of difference between McCain and Obama.
Posted by jlw771 at 08/30/2008 @ 2:25pm
However, if your read Michael Totten, who went into Gerogia when the fighting was ending...
posted by 2Happy at 5:27 PM
Could you please point me to some of his writing? Where can I find it? Whether it was started by Georgia and S.O., isolating Russia and provoking a conflict will do no one any good and that is exactly what McCain/Pauline and Biden/Obama will do.
Posted by jlw771 at 08/30/2008 @ 6:29pm